The Method: Leading Without Changing

Hello, my name is Alejandra Chacón. I'm Head of Strategy at Havas Media Network.sociologyst by training Those words, three words that best define me are, on the one hand,coherence, on the other hand, mental order, not rigidity,and the third, the imagination to connect things that apparently were not there.

HOW TO LEAD WITHOUT LOSING YOURSELF I want to start by telling a story that happened in 2013.

I remember that year, it was when I got pregnant with my first daughter,Although at that time I didn't know it yet,and in which my previous agency had done a consultancy about all the people who worked there.

With which, when it was time for me to...receive feedback on my performance as a professional,they told me I had too much "I",which was a bit confusing to digest, because it made me think about...

what specific behaviors or in which specific situations, that "I."..

that almost mythical "I" they referred to, had been a problem.

And actually, they were not able to define it at that time in concrete terms, rather, the idea was more that… my person or my personality were too present in my work.

I believe that this is one of the great difficulties we often face when trying to know who we are at work,wondering whether who we are or how we are is the best version of ourselves, or simply the way we lead.

And it's funny, because a few years later, in a personal process that I began, I learned to identify and also to embrace who I was,and to be much kinder and more understanding towards myself,and also to identify my greater and weaker skills, my strengths and my weaknesses.

In fact, from knowing who I am,they have truly been the best professional years of my life.

When we often talk about identifying who we are, sometimes we think that it is something that has to be unchangeable, and that is not true either.

In the end, this learning has to go hand in hand with learning how to move or react too, or those things you have to learn.

And how to manage yourself within an organization or a work environment.

THE POSITION OF WOMEN IN MANAGEMENT As you develop in a professional structure, as you reach management positions,the truth is that you're going to find fewer and fewer women in those meetings, because, indeed, the percentage of women in management positions is increasingly lower. It is around...

30%, and when you go to CEO levels, we are talking about 7%.

The sociologist in me has tried to do her part,through social research, specifically in the advertising world,to understand what happens to women in organizations.

And with the research I have done,what I realized is that the difficulties that women have,not on an individual level, but at a structural level,they have to do with that professional development.

To give you an idea, 30% of women in the advertising industry, feel invisible in the work they do.

It really takes a lot for them to be seen, to feel valued,in the field they work.

It must be taken into account that 70% of Advertising students in Spain are women, but in reality, we only have a 22%,between 22% and 28% of women are in creative management positions,and that in the same number of years, women take much longer to get a management position.

We took the test with 20 years of career, women have 27 less percentage points of chance of reaching a management position,at the same race number, where it is also in management positions where the wage gap increases the most.

In addition to that, the effort and the mental exhaustion involved,what does it mean to make our work visible?

To continue having a professional career, to participate in the best projects,coupled with conciliation issues, also closely related to mental load what that entails, they effectively make the situation of women within companies something that goes much further also from us.

STRATEGIES TO SURVIVE AS A WOMAN IN LEADERSHIP Sometimes we have the feeling that being complacent will help us achieve respect, and I think that's where we were wrong.

I think that one of the things that I ask at a professional level is trust,and I say it openly.

I have been to meetings, contests,projects in which I needed...

that people let me do my job as best as possible.And what I have asked of the room, and let me tell you,usually, the higher up, the more men you find, is that they would give me a vote of confidence.

Let's ask for it. Let us also ask for the confidence to do things,and let's also ask to be allowed to tell them without fear.

It is very difficult for anyone to tell you that they don't give you 5 minutes to convey an idea when we are talking.

If there is someone interrupting you you can say, "Excuse me, let me finish." But it has to come from the conviction that you have the legitimacy and the right to be saying what you want to say.

And it works, because the reality is that there will be no one to defend your work for you.

And although that may cause discomfort, if you have to explain one thing, and that's why the whole room turns to listen to what you have to say,hold on to whatever nerves you have, and do it.

And it's going to be the only way, or I think it's the way you...

...earn the respect of others, and you are also gaining confidence in yourself, and I insist, confidence is trained. It really is.

What makes men and women different in leadership positions?

In very masculine environments, it is difficult,because many times, unconsciously, but it is something that happens,they establish networks of camaraderie, of male camaraderie,and you don't go in there, because things that may seem anecdotal, such as the pats, if you pay attention,when you enter a meeting or a context in which men meet,there are the pats on the back.

Sometimes I have seen it too, pats on the belly,pats on the shoulder... We women don't pat each other,and men never pat me. What's happening?

That this has established a code of camaraderie.Next step of the meeting,and this is true, is to start talking about football.

Everyone also knows, even if they don't know each other what team each one is from, and then it's the comment of...

What has happened to Barça, to Madrid? "Well, I'm more of a Madrid fan","You're a Barça fan," and whatever. What have they done? A network.

All those things, of course, also create links,relationships of trust, and a whole series of things that are not seen, and that is where I think the difficulty lies.

THE MATURE WOMAN AS A CREATIVE PROFILE When we did the research on , which is a research on the abandonment of women in creative agencies in Spain after their forties, because what happens in creative agencies in Spain is that, after 35 years old, there is a huge step and practically a stampede out.

One of the things they told us was, especially also linked to motherhood, the difficulty of maintaining the social agenda of the agency, of the life of the agency, of what is strictly work-related.

And then it all adds up.In general, you leave the agency and go for a drink, not punctually,but systematically.

This is where work conversations also take place,where they talk about projects, where many times they even continue giving returns to the ideas that may have arisen in the agency.

Of course, the moment you let go of those moments or that life either because you have had children, you don't want to, you haven't had them,or you can't and you don't want to, well, indeed, there is a penalty.

The percentage of women with children in creative positions who said this negatively impacted their career, it was quite high.

If I remember correctly, it was around 60.For men, in creative positions with children,the impact did not reach 30.

In recent years in Spain, it has been achieved thanks to...

the support of more creative women and all the work done by universities to promote this, that entry positions are equal.

But then there are also cases, as the salary gap in junior positions,which is practically non-existent.

When you enter, both men and women charge the same.

The salary gap appears after eleven to fifteen years of career.

That's where women start to earn less.Adding to that the possibilities of promotion to management positions,because really the step is from the senior to the management position.

They can't be promoted, nor moved from senior to management.

Why does this happen?Indeed, with motherhood, or having to face a conciliation,many women decide that...

it is not worth it.It is not because they don't like it, or because their motivation is not the same, because it is exactly the same,but it is not worth it, "they are paying me less, and also..." my chances of promotion are much lower." Thus, if what is required of me is such a great demand in hours of work and dedication,if you don't see yourself back for career progression or equal pay,well, actually, that's when they start to drop...

the profession.Okay.- Great.

Hello, I'm Victoria Manankova, VP of Operations at Factorial.

I think what defines me is courage.I'm a proactive person, I make difficult decisions and accept any challenge without avoiding discomfort.

I will try to answer the maximum number of questions as fast as possible.

What's the difference...between a woman who survives and one who leads?

Self-confidence.What weighs more in a hostile environment?

Resilience or support?Support.When a woman is evaluated differently than a man, does it show...

more in results or in style?In style.What shows that a company is not ready for women leaders?

The processes or the culture?Culture.Is adapting to masculine culture worth moving up?

Springboard or trap?Trap.The consequence of adapting too much is...?

Losing your identity.What slows progress the most?

The "ambitious" or the "emotional" label?"Emotional." Being authentic gives you more respect...

...or more resistance...?More resistance.To confront the impostor syndrome.

Mentoring or self-confidence?Both things.A key strategy against the impostor...

- syndrome is...

What opens more doors in a room dominated by men Firmness.

What's most effective to open space for other women?

Sharing power or changing rules?Changing rules.When you are the only woman, and the loudest voice is not yours,should you confront or bide your time?

Confront.Is promoting women only by quota a progress or an illusion?

It is progress.The most powerful tool to generate support networks among women is...

Word dissemination.What is more useful, a formal development program, or an informal...

sisterhood network?A sisterhood network.The clearest indicator that the glass ceiling is still there is...

The percentage of women in leadership positions.What's better to break the glass ceiling?

Individual merit or structural change?Structural change.

A place at the table means...Being able to make decisions...

Being able to make decisions and have your own voice.

Is power more useful for protection or...to transform?

To transform.The organizational practice...that really promotes inclusion is...

Clear processes.What is worse? Being the only woman, or being ignored...

- in the room?

- acceptance?

I'm very nervous. I'm tense.I set the timer and everything.

My mind went blank.But it has been nice.But you've done great. Well,thanks a lot.

Thanks to you.

- Hello.

you.You too. It's nice to be...- in Madrid.

It's a pleasure to have a conversation with you about leadership, and how to be a woman in companies.

We will see what we agree on, and what we don't.Earlier, when we were talking backstage,the truth is that I found your professional career very interesting,which has also been international.

So...Well, it is because it gives you like...perspectives.

Yes, it's different.In the end,I come from Russia, and I've been abroad for quite some time,but I also lived most of my life inside.

All education, family, social concepts...I took them from there.

And there are really like two separate issues.One theme is leadership. Another topic is feminism.

So, obviously, the Soviet style, my grandparents were communists.- There was no...

I would not classify the topic of feminism as taboo,but it simply did not exist, because I didn't know how to value the role of a woman or a female leader.

But on the other hand, my mother is also a space engineer,and she obviously worked all her life in a male dominant...

...environment, and also led at home.So it's like, on the one hand, I haven't had any specific education in feminism or, in general, on the role of women in society,and it was quite divided what a woman had to do,which is raising children, cooking and so on.

The tradition rooted in the past, versus my mother, who led or was in charge of our home, and also outside.

So I have grown up in this dichotomy of concepts.It's been quite a while since I left the country, and I started working in international companies,seeing different types of behaviors of people in different...

countries.Do you think there was something in those moments in which you said:"Well, my mother does that"? If I may ask.

I don't think I've ever thought that because my mother does it,I'm going to copy her behavior, because at the moment of truth,I've never known what she does or how, since I've never been able to see it.

It's not like you could visit her work.It was a fairly high level of secrecy.

Therefore, they are peculiar things.I have not seen her in action in the work environment,But I have seen her at home.

That could also have...It has helped me develop a specific character, more like a...

combative person.I wanted to ask you, because it has happened to me too,that not necessarily my references, apart from my mother, at work,have been women.

And there are behaviors that I've learned, or that I have given myself permission to have, because I felt they were my own, but what did the men do?

And that, if this person behaves like this, they give their opinion,they're an assertive person, sometimes they don't necessarily agree...

with everyone, and they put themselves in other situation, and that person...

is penalized, or even valued.Well, I also accept that behavior for myself.

I don't know if this has ever happened to you.Yes, in general I did not have references in women's leadership when I started my career. I was in a company led by men and I think there was only one woman, who was Head of CX.

But quickly when I entered, she went on maternity leave,and she had her story too.

I watched her from afar, because didn't really connect… back then.

But the leaves usually last quite a long time.In Russia, for example, maternity leaves last two years.

She came back I think in six months. And for me...

For me, not knowing other environments,it was shocking.

Shocking because she was really afraid and frightened of not being able to...

stay in the leadership position.The rest were men.

And speaking of behavior, if you don't have female references in the end you see a person, one person leads one way and you say...

"Okay." I have thought: "Why can't I lead...in the same way?" One of the debates that always exists regarding this topic is if then...

those women, or us, we are assuming or copying theoretically masculine behaviors.

Do you think those exist?Because I don't.In fact, when I adopt these behaviors it's because I think they connect with how I want to do things, and what I do is give myself permission.

But sometimes...What do you think of this dichotomy in which it seems like female leadership has to be done in a certain way, different than the masculine leadership?

It's like the chicken and the egg.You don't know what comes first. Or it's really a woman that tends to have the same behavior, and it is natural,or it's because she adopts this behavior because she copies it from a man.

For example, a good example would be Margaret Thatcher.

Why do we know her as "The Iron Lady"?And why is she "The Iron Lady"?

Because she adopted some behavior or because she was already like that?

Maybe she already had something, an empowering style that allowed her to stand out.

Before, in fact,we also said what was happening to you, maybe not so much now, but before,that when they saw you, you said: "Sure." Besides, they see me blonde and such.

Also, the surprise, I mean, because it can be attributed to you deep down, the stereotype of whoever sees you:"It should be..." or thinks you should be...

in a way...They're always surprised.At first, when I was younger, I guess people had something,a preconceived image of me, which people who didn't know me saw,and then when I started talking it was: "Oops, what's going on here...

that unsettles me?" But yes, I was always told that I am very petite,very feminine, very blonde too, which is unsettling in certain ways,so it was difficult for me to be taken more seriously.

We mentioned before about issues of feminism, equality and so on.

If you had to count on your experience, at what moment...

you're becoming more aware, more or less, at what time...

...of your career, so far, could it be?I believe that there were signs from the first moment,When two years into my career, they put me as team leader, and that's when I already faced the men's table.

These were signs, but I've never thought about the role of women,because I didn't know how to distinguish if it was because of gender or also because of height, or my appearance.

I believe that I'm aware of the situation in Spain. I already worked at Factorial,and when we started, in fact, thinking about it now,the table was not a table as such, but in the meetings,we were many women. I had a coworker...

from a Northern European market,and another from Southern Europe, which is now the CRO from Factorial, and also,at that time I was Head of Marketing.

So we were always all at the table, and it was a female table.

It was a table where you didn't have to think that there was...

bias.I also came to feminism through a vital slap,to put it one way, because, indeed, when I started working, I was one of those people who, even though I saw that things happened to other women, especially once motherhood arrives,and then, when I had my first daughter, and indeed,

I no longer had... I couldn't give 24 hours of my life to the company, and didn't want to either, because I wanted to be a mother,also to have time for my daughter...

Suddenly there is a brutal job change, which you're not...

aware of, until it happens to you.There is an interesting part that I think is understanding,and it is where you also begin to discover that what happens to you.

Not only does it happen to you, but it also happens to many others.

Many times, it happens before entering into these processes of guilt or self-responsibility, you understand that...

there are structural dynamics that make, actually,what happens to you, happen much more.

After that epiphany, I got quite involved...consciously and constantly in feminist movements which wanted to transform the industry.

That also opened the door for me to do a lot of networking in the industry within women's groups.

I believe that these conversations that we have,they help women feel less alone in their difficulties.

Thinking how you may feel in a moment,with all those doubts and fears, because if not, sometimes you see the position,and it seems that it is just that, a position, and it is not seen the trajectory, the difficulties or the paths one goes through too.

I think it also helps you feel...Well, that there are other women who may have gone through similar paths,and that, well, yes it is true that it's a little frightening the word "inspiration", but as we said, sometimes...

being there, it can already be a little inspiring.

What you were saying about coherence, knowing how to read the context,of being aware of when you are part of the context, when you assume the context,personal responsibility, and how to act from this personal responsibility,and know what is in your hands and what you can influence,it has helped me a lot.

If it can be an external reference, if it can be as a mentor who is in a similar position, or in my case, I consume a lot of digital content where,for example, women in the same position are progressing in their careers, then I'm trying to search for these references, and coaching has been quite a revelation...

Big enough in the last year,to also find this confidence, to find the strength and support myself and then give support to others.

Well, that's good. I believe that whatever makes you learn and think of yourself,and so on, I think that's where, in the end...

Because that's where you root.Exactly.And from there, it's easier not to get lost in those meetings.

Well, Alejandra, I really wasn't expecting today, at all,this type of conversation.

I thought it was going to be different, generic, and it has been quite personal.

I thank you because it has also been a quite comfortable environment for me,to speak, and I have learned a lot. It has inspired me too.

I've seen an example of leadership, I've seen an example to follow,an example of a person who has been through a lot, who has a lot...

knowledge, and who has the generosity to share this knowledge with everyone.

Thank you very much for this meeting, and I am very grateful to have met you.

Thank you very much too.Thank you very much for sharing your life, your experience.

I think it is a great act of generosity, because it means opening up,and look for each other in those places that are sometimes also more intimate.

Really, thank you so much.For me, this talk, and this talk with you,is like a huge exercise in empathy,because, in the end, finding someone with very different lives and very different approaches,and realizing that, deep down, we have a lot in common, feels amazing.

So, I really appreciate the conversation.We will keep in touch, and of course, we are both part of a mutual network.

It has been a pleasure talking with you.Thank you so much.

Lots of love.

I am Victoria Manankova, VP of Operations at Factorial and these are my 10 leadership tips:Give visibility to your achievements and those of your team in a strategic way to ensure fair recognition.

Learn to value yourself and recognize your talent, as a basis for projecting...

security.Seek support from trusted professionals to serve as mentors and references.

Understand the context and learn to master it to make better decisions.

Don't resist constantly.Learn to choose your battles.

Accept that there will be uncomfortable situations and adapt to change, without losing focus.

Use your leadership position to support and empower other women.

Remember that making mistakes is part of the journey, and that a mistake does not define your value.

See each change as an opportunity for learning and growth.

Set aside time for yourself.Be creative and keep a healthy and positive balance.

Great, well, not great either, but thank you, thank you for...

the support.